6 - MM McCabe on Heraclitus
Peter's colleague Professor MM McCabe joins him in the first interview of the series of podcasts, to talk about Heraclitus.
Themes:
Further Reading
MM McCabe (as MM MacKenzie), "The Moving Posset Stands Still: Heraclitus fr. 125," American Journal of Philology 1987, 542-55
Comments
on Heraclitus fragmenr b. 125
Hi, I really enjoyed the podcast of MM McCabe on Heraclitus. I want to ask you if you could please send me the passage in Greek and the new translation of fragment B.125 or tell me where can I look for the information on it. Thank you and keep on with the good work.
The posset
Hi there,
She actually published her discussion of this in the article I cite on this page, in the "further reading." But her reading is as follows:
ο κυκεων ισταται κινουμενος
Thus, "the barley drink, stands, moving" (i.e. so long as it stays in motion you still have a properly mixed drink, but if it isn't moving it separates)
She got to this by emending διισταται ("separates") to ισταται ("stands"), previously it would have said "the barley drink separates when moving" which doesn't make sense, so later editors had instead inserted μη to get "the barley drink separates when not moving." Her much more elegant emendation produces something that makes sense and is quintessentially Heraclitean!
Peter
General
Hi Peter,
Absolute catcher-upper, thanks so much for this resource. In uni it was all exam- focussed, so I actually retained very little. That said, I studied in Maynooth, in Ireland, so I am NOT looking forward to re-dismissing Aquinas! :-)
Catching up
Dear Kenneth,
Thanks, I'm glad you find it helpful. I'll take that as a challenge to make you find Aquinas interesting... in about 3 years when I get to him, that is!
Peter
University Education
Kenneth's observation rings true.
One learns more from philosophy when it is the subject of learned discourse, rather than examination. Coursework examinations seem counterproductive to a true education.
Heraclitus might suggest, "Education fails through examination!"
Mary McCabe - Heraclitian use of aphorisms
I thoroughly enjoyed this podcast and indeed the entire series so far.
I am doing a paper on Nietzsche's use of Heraclitus' form of the aphorism in his (Nietzsche) early and later periods.
I was struck by her argument that each aphorism contains an argument and often a resolution - I think N. might have been drawn to this as well.
Has she published anything on this thesis? I was unable to find anything at the university databases?
Thanks for any consideration and thanks so much for this series.
After reading his book so many times it was delight to here 'S' of the famous KRS!
Four years later...
Mary Margaret Mackenzie (1988) "Heraclitus and the Art of Paradox", Oxford Studies in Ancient Philosophy 6:1
Heraclitus
The series is a good review of philosophy. Thanks for the work to produce it! I felt somewhat dissatisfied after this segment. It seems we know so little about Heraclitus that everything said in the podcast is very speculative. And further the idea seemed to be that if you do not understand one of the aphorisms then rewrite it to state something you can understand.
Contraries?
So I suppose Heraclitus is enslaved and emancipated through clear ambiguities . He really had no choice but to speak in contradictions since otherwise he'd refute himself within the the ever changing unchanged One.
I'm beginning to realize how my favourite, Plato, might have misinformed me about Heraclitus.
Heraclitus
Whether or not Heraclitus had this in mind, I find a profound truth that at 84 never occurred to me; namely, every day is different; every person we meet is not the same as he was yesterday. We do ourselves and others a great injustice in assuming that we feel the same, believe the same, see things the same, as we did yesterday. Even the words we use mean something different today than they did yesterday, and the words mean one thing to us and another to our hearers and readers.
posit a posset?
How do you spell the word you referred to from fragment 125 (that describes the Greek "salad dressing like" / emulsion drink (oil/wine/cheese +/- grain))? What does it look like?
Posset
The spelling is indeed posset; I think MM is just comparing it to the most similar thing that has existed since then, which is described here:
Thanks
I don't have anything else to say , but thank you for all of this wonderfull podcasts
heraclitus
anytime i hear or read someone's interpretation of h., i come back and listen to this [and the previous podcast] for refreshment. of course, coming in with new knowledge and experiences, the podcast is different each time. thanks for all the knowledge you make available freely, even if the credentials are expensive [writing from usa].
new each time
What could be a more appropriate experience for Heraclitus! Thanks, that's very kind of you, I'm glad you enjoy the series.
Other Greek influences
Peter,
This is brilliant. I so appreciate your talks. It's a wonderful review from college philosophy courses and so much more - so much clearer. Maybe I am ready to hear now!
Question: I know this isn't related to philosophy, but I was wondering if the philosophers of the ancient Greek world were exposed to, familiar with, engaged in the Eleusinian and Orphic Mysteries and if so, whether it influenced their ideas? Thank you.
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