Great podcast as always, Peter, but I'm confused by your comments around 5 minutes in, where you say that Thrasymachus thinks "common conceptions of justice help the weak rather than the strong, because they keep the strong in line and allow the weak a share in decision-making". This definitely seems to be Glaucon's adopted view (358e1-359b6), but where is it in Thrasymachus?
It doesn't seem to me that Thrasymachus deviates much if at all from the common wisdom on the topic of what things are to dikaion - his examples are law-abiding (339b8), paying taxes fully (343d5), and serving faithfully and impartially in public office (343e1), which all seem fairly standard. Nor do I think he desires a change to the status quo - the status quo we have, on his account, is already one where a few strong people exploit everyone else, which is the life he recommends (for the strong, anyway - he doesn't have any recommendations for the weak). The real difference between Thrasymachus and conventional wisdom is whether a life of injustice is better or worse than a life of justice. But the strong are well-served by common conceptions of justice, on Thrasymachus' account, because it's those conceptions of justice that keep the weak happily beavering away at whatever it is the strong want them to do*.
*actually, this last remark is conjecture on my part: Thrasymachus, unlike Callicles or Glaucon, is singularly uninterested in what motivates the just/weak to act as they do. The only hint of a motive for the just I think we get is the perplexing claim at 344c2 that "Those who reproach injustice do so because they are afraid not of doing it but of suffering it", which sounds like Glaucon's story but in the context both of Thrasymachus' speech and the elenchus doesn't really make much sense to me.
Thrasymachus
Great podcast as always, Peter, but I'm confused by your comments around 5 minutes in, where you say that Thrasymachus thinks "common conceptions of justice help the weak rather than the strong, because they keep the strong in line and allow the weak a share in decision-making". This definitely seems to be Glaucon's adopted view (358e1-359b6), but where is it in Thrasymachus?
It doesn't seem to me that Thrasymachus deviates much if at all from the common wisdom on the topic of what things are to dikaion - his examples are law-abiding (339b8), paying taxes fully (343d5), and serving faithfully and impartially in public office (343e1), which all seem fairly standard. Nor do I think he desires a change to the status quo - the status quo we have, on his account, is already one where a few strong people exploit everyone else, which is the life he recommends (for the strong, anyway - he doesn't have any recommendations for the weak). The real difference between Thrasymachus and conventional wisdom is whether a life of injustice is better or worse than a life of justice. But the strong are well-served by common conceptions of justice, on Thrasymachus' account, because it's those conceptions of justice that keep the weak happily beavering away at whatever it is the strong want them to do*.
*actually, this last remark is conjecture on my part: Thrasymachus, unlike Callicles or Glaucon, is singularly uninterested in what motivates the just/weak to act as they do. The only hint of a motive for the just I think we get is the perplexing claim at 344c2 that "Those who reproach injustice do so because they are afraid not of doing it but of suffering it", which sounds like Glaucon's story but in the context both of Thrasymachus' speech and the elenchus doesn't really make much sense to me.